Understanding Fly Lines

ohanzee

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So how do they pick a line? Colour, Price, my granny had one.

If anglers behave as I do I have different outfits that I use for different purposes. Within the trout envelope I use effectively 3 outfits. Loch style boat, stillwater bank and river, but I do little river fishing so my approach is not sophisiticated.
For loch style most of the time the line profile scarcely matters: almost any line will cast 60 to 70 ft with no more than a couple of false casts and with a minimum of 15ft leader delicate presentation is not critical. But I did have a line that was outstanding for short lining this had simple profile a head length of 30 ft being 10ft front taper 10ft belly and 10ft rear taper.
For stillwater bank I use TT, in the past I've used arrowhead as well as standard WF lines.

The ones that ask here tend to go on recommendations, choosing from a buffet of Maxcatch and Barrio suggestions.
 

ohanzee

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Any use?


The line comparison bit is actually quite visually informative, not sure if 'wind taper' and 'casting taper' are just invented or a US thing.
 

tangled

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It's very good and I'll be nicking it, but what it does is explain the complexity well but without resolving it to practical choices.

It's not answering my simple questions that the majority of average UK trout anglers need an answer to.

River, upstream dry and nymph - overhead cast
River, down and across - roll casts
Small stillwater (shortish casts)
Large stillwater (longish casts)
Loch style, drifting boat - classic 3 wets
 

James9118

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The Competition is a line for people who can consistently generate and maintain the line speed to hold 70+ feet of line in the air. It is a competition line . . . not much of a fishing line.
I appreciate what you're trying to do i.e. cut through some of the bullshit associated with lines, but statements like this just add to the 'myths'

Give one good reason, looking at the taper profile, why the MED is 'not much of a fishing line'. If you can't come up with anything valid, and you won't, then I suggest you remove this comment.

James
 

tangled

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I appreciate what you're trying to do i.e. cut through some of the bullshit associated with lines, but statements like this just add to the 'myths'

Give one good reason, looking at the taper profile, why the MED is 'not much of a fishing line'. If you can't come up with anything valid, and you won't, then I suggest you remove this comment.

James

Not my words - they're PaulD's (and I credited them).

I certainly can't defend them, I'm just the editor that's also done the basic grunt work. I'm looking for you experts to come to some sort of consensus.

My (not entirely) inexpert opinion would be that you could fish with it just fine using 30' of it outside the rod - don't see why not. But it's marketed as meeting competition standards so I'd expect that to be it's main use? For a specialist?

btw, everything in the post is subject to change - particularly that second section on profiles. At the moment I feel we're a long way away from getting to what I need. If I can't get some degree of consensus, I'll just delete a big chunk of it and declare most marginal profile designs subjective, marketing puff.
 

James9118

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My (not entirely) inexpert opinion would be that you could fish with it just fine using 30' of it outside the rod - don't see why not. But it's marketed as meeting competition standards so I'd expect that to be it's main use? For a specialist?
Think of it as a 'normal' line that has an extra trick up its sleeve - i.e. extreme distance. However, if you write it off as a fishing line then you also have to write off lines like the Barrio GT90 and GT125, and lots of other long belly weight forwards.

There are very few people who can utilise the extreme distance capabilities of these types of lines, but that doesn't mean the front end of them is somehow worse than other lines.

I'll also remind people that not long ago one of the distance casting records was held by someone casting a DT line. If you possess the ability to aerialise a DT line to the backing knot then it just becomes an extreme shooting head. This doesn't then detract from its fishing ability at short range.

James
 
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ohanzee

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''The Competition is a line for people who can consistently generate and maintain the line speed to hold 70+ feet of line in the air. It is a competition line . . . not much of a fishing line''

''The Competition is a line for people who can consistently generate and maintain the line speed to hold 70+ feet of line in the air. It is a competition line . . . at shorter range, without utilising the full length of the long belly it behaves like a normal or short belly, fishing line''

Fair edit?
 

ohanzee

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It's very good and I'll be nicking it, but what it does is explain the complexity well but without resolving it to practical choices.

It's not answering my simple questions that the majority of average UK trout anglers need an answer to.

River, upstream dry and nymph - overhead cast
River, down and across - roll casts
Small stillwater (shortish casts)
Large stillwater (longish casts)
Loch style, drifting boat - classic 3 wets

I thought I had avoided that messy bit :)
 

PaulD

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Give one good reason, looking at the taper profile, why the MED is 'not much of a fishing line'. If you can't come up with anything valid, and you won't, then I suggest you remove this comment.

James

This is what I wrote -

The profile of - 3. The Mastery Competition, defines it as a line for long casting. This does not mean that if you buy one you will cast further. If you're used to a profile like the Mastery Titan, you'll probably cast less far with the Competition. The Competition is a line for people who can consistently generate and maintain the line speed to hold 70+ feet of line in the air. It is a competition line . . . not much of a fishing line.

I would contend that, for the great majority of anglers, lines with tapers similar to the first two examples I showed, will offer more to them, in day to day fishing terms, than the Mastery Competition or similar lines for the simple casting reason, 'this does not mean that if you buy one you will cast further'. If you can't hold 45ft of line in the air, forming consistent loops then the Competition isn't a fishing line that's going to give you any benefits above any other line.
 

Gary Ridgeway

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This is what I wrote -

The profile of - 3. The Mastery Competition, defines it as a line for long casting. This does not mean that if you buy one you will cast further. If you're used to a profile like the Mastery Titan, you'll probably cast less far with the Competition. The Competition is a line for people who can consistently generate and maintain the line speed to hold 70+ feet of line in the air. It is a competition line . . . not much of a fishing line.

I would contend that, for the great majority of anglers, lines with tapers similar to the first two examples I showed, will offer more to them, in day to day fishing terms, than the Mastery Competition or similar lines for the simple casting reason, 'this does not mean that if you buy one you will cast further'. If you can't hold 45ft of line in the air, forming consistent loops then the Competition isn't a fishing line that's going to give you any benefits above any other line.
I don't get the logic here, who are the majority of anglers, where do they fish and using what tactics? I also suspect 9/10 anglers can hold 45 ft of line in the air.
 

morayfisher

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Or to put it another way, I use a Barrio GT90 for all those that has this profile



Why should I use anything else?
I once read on the forum
“just turn a GT90 around and you’d have another great line”
I’m guessing you’d have to trim the running line back to a reasonable tip. Would that give good presentation and also roll cast really well?
 

ohanzee

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I once read on the forum
“just turn a GT90 around and you’d have another great line”
I’m guessing you’d have to trim the running line back to a reasonable tip. Would that give good presentation and also roll cast really well?

I think whoever suggested that was probably not being serious.
 

James9118

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I think whoever suggested that was probably not being serious.
I'd disagree, it would work really quite well reversed (with the running line removed). However, why you'd want to do this when you could just buy a purpose designed single handed Spey line straight off the shelf, is beyond me.

James
 

PaulD

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It's not answering my simple questions . . .

River, upstream dry and nymph - overhead cast
River, down and across - roll casts
Small stillwater (shortish casts)
Large stillwater (longish casts)
Loch style, drifting boat - classic 3 wets

These are not all 'simple' questions with a simple answer.

Upstream dry and nymph . . . how far are you casting on average . . . 20 to 35ft . . . 25 to 45ft? Are these heavy nymphs or tiny dry flies?

Stillwaters . . . a team of buzzers on a 20+ft leader . . . a beadchained Humungous?

Loch style, drifting boat . . . roll casting and dibbling a top dropper . . . fishing flies on the hang . . . need to cast distance . . . be able to change cast direction quickly?
 

andygrey

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As someone who gets asked for tackle recommendations more than most I've settled on a few basic picks...

Beginner - River (lets say 4wt and below) - Orvis Clearwater

Intermediate/Advanced caster - River - Barrio Small Stream or Rio LT

Beginner/Intermediate caster - Still Water (5wt up) - Orvis Clearwater

Intermediate/Advanced caster - Still Water - Barrio GT90 or Micheal Evans Arrowhead (if you can get one)

Pike fishing - Barrio Predator (23g/25g/28g depending on rod)

The above is based on what I know and use and aims to keep it simple. I often have days with complete novices or people with very limited experience so need stuff that can get them up and casting ASAP so we can get fishing. The choice of the Orvis Clearwater may seem like an odd one but for beginners and intermediate casters the +0.5 line rating does help.
 

morayfisher

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I’ve just reread the accumulated information at the top of this thread.
Lots of interesting stuff in there already and more to come I hope.
It’s made me want to have a play around at making a shooting head for a start. 👍
 
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