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Understanding Modern Trout Fly Reels

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#1 · (Edited)
Understanding Modern Trout Fly Reels

Introduction

This article is about the kind of reels we'll normally find in the UK for trout fishing here.

For UK trout fishing, the reel is the least important piece of gear we have. Many people consider it simply a container for the line. Tenkara fly anglers don't even use one.

But for those who like to play a fish off the reel's drag it's a critical piece of equipment and for others a reel is a piece of exquisite engineering-as-art that will one day become an heirloom. Some people simply buy them as investments and put them on a shelf to admire.


You'll have to make up your own mind where you are on that tool-to-ornament spectrum.

History
Fishing reels have been around in some form or other for hundreds of years and were called winches or winders in pre-Victorian England. Many reels were made by artisans, individual craftsmen and gunsmiths in the 1800s from wood, brass, steel and ebonite but perhaps the archetypal fly reel form that all modern fly reels descended from was the Hardy Perfect which had a drag and a detachable spool..

Hardy Perfect


You'll find a short history of reels as well as all things fly fishing in Mark Kurlansky's book "The Unreasonable Virtue of Fly Fishing" - highly recommended read - but here's a short history.
http://www.fishingmuseum.org.uk/reels_overview.html

[Anybody got any other good links or recommended books?]

Components of a fly reel
All fly reels look like centre pin reels - because they are. The centre pin is a very old design - based on a hub and axle like a wheel; the pin in the centre of the reel is also called the spindle, shaft or post.

The spool spins around the spindle and holds the line. The handle is attached to the spool.

Some kinds of spools are fully interchangeable cassettes - usually made of polycarbonate plastic. This is a clever and low-cost way of keeping many different lines without needing to buy many different reels or expensive metal spools.

The spool has an arbour. The arbour is the centre part of the spool that the line is wrapped around. Arbours can have large, medium and small diameters. They also have various widths, obviously the wider the arbour the more line can be contained on the reel. More on this later.

The frame holds the spool in place and guides the line onto and off it; it can be open or closed.

The drag is a brake on the spindle which slows the line coming off the reel when a fish runs, protecting the line from sudden breakages. It's controlled by loosening and tightening the drag knob on the side of the reel. Drags can be open or fully sealed. Open drags allow the user to maintain them, sealed drags stop water, salt and grit entering the mechanism.

A few reels do not have drags, these reels are click and pawl. With no drag they can be very light and are used mainly for small fish. You use your hand and fingers to brake the reel and slow the fish. The pawl makes the all-important click and stops line overruns when you pull line off the reel. (Line overruns are when the reel keeps spinning after you've stopped pulling line off - it can cause a bird's nest tangle.)

The reel foot fixes the reel onto the rod.

The size of the reel seat is an AFFTA standard like the line standard. This means that any fly reel younger than 20 years or so should fit on any fly rod.

Image


And that's pretty much it. But of course, this is fly fishing and we like to make things more complicated than that so there are multiple tweaks and variants around this basic design.

Here's an exploded image of a modern reel with an unsealed drag and an open frame.

1653390779072.png


Here's a click and pawl reel. The clicker can be seen in the left-hand picture as a small, silver pointer. It meshes with the cog in the right-hand picture.

1653390806684.png


Materials

Aluminium

Probably the majority of reels made today are of aluminium alloy which is light, durable and machinable. There are two ways to make a fly reel out of aluminium; machine it or diecast it. And just for fun, there's a hybrid method that machines diecast parts.

(There are also hot and cold forging - ie stamping - too but I haven't seen those methods mentioned in reel marketing material.)

Computer Numerical Controlled (CNC), Computer Aided Manufacturing (CAM)
These technologies are used to carve reels out of solid blocks of aluminium alloy, like Michelangelo finding David inside a block of marble.

You may have read the terms "bar stock" or "billet" in a reel's marketing material. "Bar stock" refers to the solid bar of aluminium that the reel is carved out of. CNC, is the program used by a CAM system that produces the reel's parts from the block.

You'll also sometimes see the term 'aircraft grade' used alongside CNC as an indication of quality (and possibly to justify a high price). Whether a reel actually needs to be made out of aircraft quality alloy or indeed whether that's the best material for the job is moot. "Aircraft quality" doesn't actually define much but most higher-end CNC reels are cut out of 6061-T6 alloy which is 98% aluminium and 1% magnesium with some other elements chucked in. 6061 is actually used for some aircraft parts, but also in truck frames, rivets, motorboats and so on so maybe it's not that big a deal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6061_aluminum_alloy

CNC and CAM methods make it possible for manufacturers to make repeatable, high tolerance parts reasonably quickly, if rather wastefully (see video below).

Here's how Hardy make a CNC reel

And here's how a highly skilled guy does the same thing almost by hand and eye.

Both manual and CNC methods look like terribly wasteful processes, though no doubt the waste aluminium is re-cycled.

Die-casting
Depending on volume, a cheaper method of making aluminium reels is by using a die-cast process. Here molten aluminium is poured or injected into moulds under pressure.

These reels can feel a little less refined - this is how one retailer describes them

Die-Cast Aluminium reels should not be confused with machined aluminium reels. Die cast aluminium is metal that has been heated and cast in to the shape of a mould - often there are tell-tale molding marks on die cast reels, small burrs and imperfections. Die cast reels are more impact resistant than plastic but have nowhere near the structural integrity of machine aluminium reels.

That's probably a bit of an unfair description as most modern reels feel and look pretty good, but there's no doubt that diecast reels can be made out of lower quality alloy that do not like to be dropped onto hard surfaces. But then neither do thin, lightweight CNC reels.

But not all diecast reels are inferior products these days, an example of a well-made diecast reel, which appears to defy that description is the Lamson Liquid which is also known for its excellent drag system.
https://www.waterworks-lamson.com/products/liquid

Another big value diecast seller is the Orvis Clearwater.

Finishing

All reels are finished with some kind of coating to protect them from our clumsiness.

Anodising
Aluminium alloy reels are sometimes described as being anodised, which "is an electrochemical process that converts the metal surface into a decorative, durable, corrosion-resistant, anodic oxide finish."

It's by far the best form of coating, especially for saltwater fishing, but as usual there are varying qualities.

This is a good article by Orvis explaining the process.

https://news.orvis.com/fly-fishing/pro-tips-understanding-anodizing

Powder Coating and Painting
Other, probably cheaper, methods are powder coating and painting with the former being more protective than the latter.

Interpreting this
When you put all this together you can create a bit of a quality ladder with anodised CNC/CAM (or handmaking) from bar stock on the top rung and painted diecast on the bottom. In between we have

THE MARKETING DEPARTMENT.

As usual, it's actually quite difficult to get accurate information about the gear that you're buying from the website you'll be buying it from. At the expensive end of the market, the reel's bragging rights are usually spelled out fully and effusively. But lower down the price range things get more blurred and open to interpretation. Often the word 'machined' will be used to describe a reel, but that could mean almost anything - if they use it, they probably want you to think it's carved from a solid block, but unless they specifically say so, it might be cast, then machined.

So long as diecasting uses good processes and good alloys, there's no reason why they too can't be anodised, but they rarely seem to be; the reason can only be cost as it's by far the best method of protecting your reel. But also not all bar stock, CNC reels are anodised - my Snowbee Spectre isn't.

[...] precision CNC machined aluminium reel at an amazing price! Machined from high grade, aircraft aluminium bar stock, […] Extra hard paint finish for salt-water & chip resistance.

So the educated buyer will want know whether the reel is machined from bar stock (and preferably with a high grade alloy), whether it's diecast and then machined, and whether it is anodised, powder coated or painted. Because each of those can be a step down the quality and price ladder. Remember, die cast reel rarely bounce and paint flakes.

Plastic
The cheapest reels are made out of plastic and that - possibly apart from their lightness - is their only real advantage, although you could make a case for durability. One problem is that they are so cheap that their internal components may also be poor. They're ok to get started with, but most serious anglers would avoid them.

Carbon Composites
Composites, sometimes called graphite, reels were once in the majority but now have become less fashionable. I'm not sure why, they make light, serviceable reels. Many remember the Leeda Dragonfly reels (well I do anyway) - sturdy and clever with detachable spools.
https://getflyfishing.com/parts-of-a-fly-reel/

Price
This is fly fishing so you can spend £20 on a perfectly functional fly reel or £3,000 on one that does almost exactly the same job in normal use but was made by the brand equivalent of Gucci; I've seen them described as jewellery - and if you look at some Abel reels you'll see why - but they are also very well engineered.

CNC reels use the most expensive materials followed by die-cast, composites and plastic. And quality is pretty much in that order too. With the exception of reels bought purely for investment, saltwater reels with sealed drags are the most expensive.

The majority of reels are now made in China and it's common to find spools from one brand will fit another as the brands tend to make only small cosmetic changes to a standard model to differentiate themselves. Most reels are very well made these days regardless of price.

Arbours (sp: arbor, US)
The arbour is the centre area of the spool, the part that the line winds around. This can be of a small or large diameter and many points in between. All arbours were originally quite small but now probably most are large. A large diameter arbour makes for a more efficient retrieve - fewer turns of the handle to retrieve the same amount of line. It is also less likely to create a memory in the line as it's packed in larger curves.

There are trade-offs though, the larger the arbour the larger the frame and spool and therefore the heavier the weight. Perhaps counterintuitively, small diameter arbours can contain more line and backing.

Here's a large arbour reel - note that the line is wrapped around the outside of the spool like a tyre sits on a wheel hub.

Orvis Clearwater Large Arbour Fly Reels - Glasgow Angling Centre


How to Select the Correct Size Fly Fishing Reel - Guide Recommended


Arbours can also be of different widths ie the inside measurement across the reel from the handle side of the spool to the drag knob. You can see in the image above that the arbour width tends to increase in size as the arbour diameter also increases.

Cassette reels

Cassette reels use low-cost polycarbonate spools which are easily interchangeable so the reel can be easily loaded with several spools containing different lines. I'm a big fan of cassette reels because I experiment with a lot of lines and I don't want to have to buy a dozen reels.

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Drawbar Reels
As the name implies, these type of reels have a bar that runs through their centre. Turning the drag on the bar pulls the spool onto the cork friction plate.

1653499118436.jpeg


It's a remarkably simple design equalled only by the remarkable price of these forms of reel. This is a video of an Islander reel showing its working parts. $750.


Semi-automatic Reels
Semi-automatic reels have a clockwork mechanism and a lever that winds the line in, er, automatically. They have the same drag mechanism as a normal fly reel for fighting a fish but the reel's springs aren't strong enough to pull in the fish and, as they don't normally have a handle, the fish is fought and retrieved by hand.

JMC Ozone Semi-Automatic Fly Reels | FLY SHOP Europe


They're quite popular in continental Europe but less so much here. They can be quite expensive and because of the extra clockwork tend to be heavier than standard fly reels.

The main advantage seems to be in competition fishing with Czech nymphs where time is important - reeling in with the lever is about three-times faster that reeling with a handle.

The winding speed is constant, and can be controlled by the number or length of lever presses.

Slack in the line can reeled in with just one finger on the lever, something not possible with normal reels which require the second hand for winding.

The Drag
Drags can be very important to some but not at all to others. It mostly depends on the size of the fish and whether and how hard they run. For most UK trout fishing drags are not essential as even larger trout can be played by hand - either by palming the reel or simply gripping and releasing line with the non-rod hand. But others like to play a fish 'off the reel' and for that they require a decent drag.

I like a large drag knob which gives good feedback when tightened - preferably with a click, although these seem rare - and can be set to spin freely to all the way to almost a dead stop in only a single turn - and do it evenly and progressively.

There are other uses for drag. If you have it set fairly lightly it will prevent overruns when pulling line off the reel - ie the spool won't carry on spinning causing a tangle. You also tighten it down when you're carrying a set-up rod with the fly in the keeper ring.

Basic click and pawl reels don't have a separate drag system, just a simple clicker to create some resistance to the spool turning, which stops reel overruns. However, on more advanced click and pawl reels the level of resistance is adjustable, which creates a 'click drag' type system; though not one powerful enough to stop a determined fish.

Components of drag systems
The drag system has been made in many different ways but these days you normally find the drag behind the spindle. Drags are similar to car clutches where circular plates press against each other, the friction between the plates causing the braking effect. As we tighten the drag knob the friction plates press harder against each other and the spindle slows.

The friction washer itself - the thing that's being squeezed to create the brake - can be made of paper, cork, carbon, ceramic, felt, Teflon, stainless steel, aluminium etc. Here's a video of a guy dissembling various drag systems. I don't recommend his use of the scalpel but it shows you the inside of the drag mechanism.

And another showing how to make a replacement washer for the drag out of G10 composite

It matters a lot what that friction washer is made out of as it will get very hot when a fish is tearing off into the distance, and the various materials used react differently to pressure and heat. Some burn! Others expand and still others lose friction. If you find yourself having to tighten the drag after a fish has been on for a while, it's because it's losing friction.

So you'd think that the best material for the job would have been found by now and all reels would use it - but sadly not. Here's a rundown.

Type of Drag System
This is unfortunately a topic that could require pages of information to describe what was discovered in the DragensteinTM Project. I will attempt to generalize and narrow it down to a few salient points.

A. Is the system a dry washer system or is grease incorporated? If the system is a stack of grease-impregnated felt washers running against metal, consider that the performance is going to change as the reel and drag system change temperature, grease is extruded, and as the felt washers age. In fact, these popular systems will never run the same way twice until the felt is totally disintegrated. Drag performance will change depending on the temperature. If they are on the deck of a boat in tropical sun or in a snow storm in Alaska, they will never perform the same way twice. These are not going to be good reels for fast running, open-water fish. They may work for trout or bream fishing where the drag will receive little use.

B. The same advice applies generally for grease-impregnated cork or cork composite. As the grease is extruded and the cork flattens and wears out, the drag system will continue to change. They are only slightly more stable than grease-impregnated felt and subject to the same problems as felt. These types of washers will permanently compress if the drag is not fully loosened when the reel is stored and in general loose their performance over time.

C. If the heart of the reel drag system is dry carbon or a dry carbon fiber, it will probably follow the trend we saw in testing. It will start running with plenty of drag, perhaps with minimal start-up forces (typical initial spike in drag forces as the line begins running), but will immediately go into a period of fade where drag forces taper off. That is then typically followed by a period of drag pressure increase as the spool empties line (spool spinning speed is increasing). That increase can be many times the original drag pressure setting.
Obviously this can be a big problem if the angler is not anticipating it. It is necessary to adjust the drag repeatedly as the fish is played and with continued removal of line.

D. Teflon (PTFE) drag washers are frequently found in spinning reel drag and can be very problematic. Teflon is known for being very slippery stuff and may give the impression that it will make a good adjustable friction surface. That only sounds good in theory. Teflon is very soft, permanently compresses very easily as it gets hot, and is too slick to make a usable drag. Even when it is impregnated with glass or some other substance (and it also goes by a lot of different names so you have to be careful to check it out), it still compresses and will loose its adjustability. The exception to what I am telling you here is my next discussion.

E. The best performing drags tested on DragensteinTM were
consistently drag systems with drag washers made of Rulon. Rulon comes in a number of different types, each with their own friction characteristics, and if properly designed in the reel will provide a fisherman with his best choice for an open-water drag system. RulonR is basically a teflon based material, but it has been altered in composition (proprietary composition) so that many of the undesirable traits of teflon are avoided. This material will reproduce consistent results during testing if everything is done correctly. (I currently hold a patent for a drag system for a spinning reel, US Patent 7,789,335, made with Rulon LR and Rulon J.)

So just what is the correct way to design a reel drag to get consistent performance? There may be no simple answer to that question, but perhaps it would help to have a little better understanding of that science of Tribology that I mentioned earlier as it applies to the type of friction device found in fishing reels.

Sealed or un-sealed drag?
Why choose one over the other? The main concern is saltwater; if you're fishing in the sea a sealed drag is by far the best idea as salt can damage open drag systems. Sub-zero temperatures can also freeze up an unsealed drag that has got wet. The downside of sealed drags is that you often can't maintain them - if the friction washer disintegrates, you may not be able to replace it yourself. If the ability to maintain the reel yourself is important to you, you'll need to check that you can get into the sealed drag and do it without voiding your warranty.

Sealed drag reels have a similar construction to non-sealed, with the obvious difference that they are designed to prevent entry of water and grit. It's the "O" rings that give the game away.

1653484664790.jpeg


By-the-way, if you are ever tempted to dismantle a reel's drag system, it's usually done by removing a screw that's in the centre of the drag knob. This screw will usually be 'left-handed' ie you turn your screw driver clockwise to undo it.

Otherwise it doesn't much matter so long as you check the condition of your un-sealed drag from time to time.

How to set the drag
Most people seem to set a drag by pulling some line off and saying "that'll do". When they get a fish on they adjust the drag to suit the situation.

There doesn't seem to be a scientific method of finding the right setting but it's interesting to attach a 1kg bag of sugar to your line and see if you can lift it off the ground with the drag fully on. You can apply surprisingly little pressure to a fish through rod and line so your drag needs to be set perhaps less tightly than you may think.

The article above recommends setting drag at 25-30% of the breaking strength of your tippet. You'll have to experiment with a spring balance to know what this is.

For trout I set the drag so that a sharp pull on the line will just stop the reel over-running and then adjust with a fish on.

The Click
This is a very personal thing. Some people like the sound of old-fashioned click and pawl reels produced by a stiff metal clicker, some prefer a modern, less obvious click made by reels using mechanisms that have no other function than to make a noise. Some reels click when you wind in, some are silent. But everyone wants to hear a reel scream when a fish tears off into the distance. Sadly, that's the sort of thing you only get to know about once you've got the reel in your hand and a fish heading to the horizon.

Capacity
Reels are marketed by line size - eg 5/6, 7/9 etc - indicating that they will be able to accommodate those line sizes plus some backing comfortably. You're not always told how much backing and of what type (backing has differing thicknesses depending on material and brand) so in reality you have to experiment a bit to work out how much to use.

Here's a forum member's (Vintage Badger) picture of two reels: "#3/4 Reel on the left with WF#3 line and 30m of backing, a #2/4 reel on the right with WF#3 line and 100m of (similar thickness) backing. The reel on the left is slightly larger in width too." Note the smaller arbour reel holds more line.

A small arbour reel with a wide arbour can often hold the most line and be the lightest.

1653404878923.jpeg


Filling a reel with line
You need to put backing and fly line onto your reel. Sometimes the manufacturer will tell you how much backing a reel can take but it's not always accurate because they don't know whether you're using a floating or a sinking line (the sinker will be thinner). They also don't know the thickness of whatever backing you've got.

Not only that but guess what? there's no standard for spool volume so one brand's 5/6 is another 4/5. If you want to hear more about this mess start reading from post #91 in this thread.

You want to fill the reel almost to the rim - too little and you're not getting the advantage of the arbour of the reel (fewer reel turns, lower line memory) too much and your reel jams against the frame.

Here's a way of getting it nearly right. I say nearly because you can put the backing onto the bare reel quite tightly, but if you do that on top of the fly line it disappears into the turns of line.

Weight
There is a tendency now to make rods and reels as light as possible. You'll see reels with holes in their drums to reduce weight and spools with narrow spokes. Large arbour reels are often heavier than standard arbour because they have to be physically larger. Saltwater reels are usually the heaviest. But does it matter?
There are differing views on this, some say that a rod and reel need to be balanced. You'll often hear that a rod's balance point should be towards the end of the cork handle as it meets the blank, but it's not clear why. Here's Brian talking about it - start at 2min 50secs.


I find it unconvincing and prefer a reel to be as light as possible. We have to move the whole system - rod, reel, line and lure - through the air and the lighter the whole system is, the less effort it takes. Moreover, the weight felt when casting is changing all the time depending on how much line is outside the rod tip; the leverage effect of the rod magnifies this as does the force applied. There is no stable fulcrum point.

With modern rods now weighing almost nothing - a 9' #5 is about 3oz - a reel plus line and backing can be three times that weight and more when wet. Just buy a light reel.

Left or right-handed reel?
Most modern reels are set to be used with a left-hand wind as standard but all can be changed easily to right handed. The instructions on how to do this will come with the reel, but here's a common way.


Traditionally, there was a preference for casting a fly rod with the right hand; upon hooking a fish, the rod was then transferred to the left hand and the reel was operated with the right. This is why so many 'vintage' fly reels are right hand wind. While some traditionalists still observe this seemingly rather awkward practice, most modern right-handed fly anglers prefer to keep the rod in their right hand and wind the reel with their left when playing a fish. Hence, most modern fly reels are set up for left hand wind, but can usually be converted quite easily to right hand operation. This saves the reel manufacturer having to make specific right handed and left handed reels.

Maintaining a reel
Sealed drag reels need little maintenance other than a regular wash and dry, particularly if it's been used in saltwater. Other types may need a bit more but you need to follow the instructions that come with your reel. As you've seen above there are different types of drag systems and greasing or not greasing them may be critical.

Here's a guy showing how it can be done

Other bits and pieces
One of the annoyances of lines is that few of them are printed with what they are so that once it's on a reel it's hard to know what you've got. Some reels though have little peg indicators that you can set to tell you (Two I can think of off-hand are the Greys GTS 500 and the Hardy Ultralite - both cassette reels. Very useful.)

Some reels have closed frames or cages around them and some are open. Closed frames are strong but can be a bit fiddly because your line can get trapped. Open reels are easier but maybe a bit less robust.

Here's a decent video discussing some of the stuff above
 
G
#3 ·
Understanding Modern Trout Fly Reels

It had to be done. I'm in COVID positive lockdown, so you can suffer with me.

This is work in progress - what have I missed/got wrong?

Introduction
For UK trout fishing, the reel is the least important piece of gear we have. Many people consider it simply a container for the line. Tenkara fly anglers don't even use one.

But for those who like to play a fish off the reel's drag it's a critical piece of equipment and for others a reel is a piece of exquisite engineering-as-art that will one day become an heirloom. Some people simply buy them as investments and put them on a shelf to admire.


You'll have to make up your own mind where you are on that tool-to-ornament spectrum.

History
Fishing reels have been around in some form or other for hundreds of years and were called winches or winders in pre-Victorian England. Many reels were made by artisans, individual craftsmen and gunsmiths in the 1800s from wood, brass, steel and ebonite but perhaps the archetypal fly reel form that all modern fly reels descended from was the Hardy Perfect which had a drag and a detachable spool..

View attachment 55845

You'll find a short history of reels as well as all things fly fishing in Mark Kurlansky's book "The Unreasonable Virtue of Fly Fishing" - highly recommended read - but here's a short history.
http://www.fishingmuseum.org.uk/reels_overview.html

[Anybody got any other good links or recommended books?]

Components of a fly reel
All fly reels look like centre pin reels - because they are. The centre pin is a very old design - based on a hub and axle like a wheel; the pin in the centre of the reel is also called the spindle, shaft or post.

The spool spins around the spindle and holds the line. The handle is attached to the spool.

Some kinds of spools are fully interchangeable cassettes - usually made of polycarbonate plastic. This is a clever and low-cost way of keeping many different lines without needing to buy many different reels or expensive metal spools.

The spool has an arbour. The arbour is the centre part of the spool that the line is wrapped around. Arbours can have large, medium and small diameter.

The frame holds the spool in place and guides the line onto and off it; it can be open or closed.

The drag is a brake on the spindle which slows the line coming off the reel when a fish runs, protecting the line from sudden breakages. It's controlled by loosening and tightening the drag knob on the side of the reel. Drags can be openor fully sealed. Open drags allow the user to maintain them, sealed drags stop water, salt and grit entering the mechanism.

A few reels do not have drags, these reels are click and pawl. With no drag they can be very light and are used mainly for small fish. You use your hand and fingers to brake the reel and slow the fish. The pawl makes the all-important click and stops line overruns when you pull line off the reel. (Line overruns are when the reel keeps spinning after you've stopped pulling line off - it can cause a bird's nest tangle.)

The reel seat fixes the reel onto the rod.

(The size of the reel seat is an AFFTA standard like the line standard. This means that any fly reel should fit on any fly rod.)

And that's pretty much it. But of course, this is fly fishing and we like to make things more complicated than that so there are multiple tweaks and variants around this basic design.

Here's an exploded image of a modern reel with an unsealed drag and an open frame.

View attachment 55847

Here's a click and pawl reel. The clicker can be seen in the left-hand picture as a small, silver pointer. It meshes with the cog in the right-hand picture.

View attachment 55849

Materials
The majority of modern reels are made of aluminium which is light, durable and machinable.

CNC

A few reels are still made by hand but the majority are machined out of solid blocks of aluminium, like Michelangelo finding David inside a block of marble. You may have heard of terms like "bar stock" and CNC in a reel's marketing material. "Bar stock" refers to th solid bar of aluminium that the reel is carved out of. Computer Numerical Controlled, CNC, is the program used by a CAM (Computer Aided Manufacturing) system that produces the reel's parts from the block.

[Anyone know anything about various qualities of aluminium used - "aircraft quality" etc. Also, magnesium and alloys?]

CNC and CAM methods make it possible for manufacturers to make repeatable, high tolerance parts fairly quickly. CNC reels are the majority of mid to high-end reels.

Here's how Hardy make a CNC reel

And here's how a highly skilled guy does the same thing almost by hand and eye.

Both manual and CNC methods look like terribly wasteful processes, though no doubt the waste aluminium is re-cycled.

Die-cast
A cheaper method of making aluminium reels is by using a die-cast process. Here molten aluminium is poured into moulds under pressure. These reels can feel a little less refined than machined reels because they can't have the same finish - die-cast reels can't be anodised, only powder coated or painted. This is said to make them unsuited to salt water use. They are also said to be less resilient, often being made from lower grade aluminium.

However, an example of a well-made die-cast reel, which appears to defy those perceptions is the Lamson Liquid which is also known for an excellent drag system.
https://www.waterworks-lamson.com/products/liquid

Plastic
The cheapest reels are made out of plastic and that - possibly apart from their lightness - is their only real advantage. They're ok to get started with, but most serious anglers would avoid them.

Carbon Composites
Composites, sometimes called graphite, reels were once in the majority but now have become less fashionable. Many remember the Leeda Dragonfly reels (well I do anyway) - sturdy and clever with detachable spools.
https://getflyfishing.com/parts-of-a-fly-reel/

Price
CNC reels use the most expensive materials followed by die-cast, composites and plastic. And quality is pretty much in that order too. With the exception of reels bought purely for investment, saltwater reels with sealed drags are the most expensive.

The majority of reels are now made in China and it's common to find spools from one brand will fit another as the brands tend to make only small cosmetic changes to a standard model to differentiate themselves. Most reels are very well made these days regardless of price.

Arbours (sp: arbor, US)
The arbour is the centre area of the spool, the part that the line winds around. This can be of a small or large diameter and many points in between. All arbours were originally quite small but now probably most are large. A large diameter arbour makes for a more efficient retrieve - fewer turns of the handle to retrieve the same amount of line. It is also less likely to create a memory in the line as it's packed in larger curves.

There are trade-offs though, the larger the arbour the larger the frame and spool and therefore the heavier the weight. A narrow arbour can contain more line and backing.

Here's a large arbour reel - note that the line is wrapped around the outside of the spool like a tyre sits on a wheel hub.

View attachment 55851

View attachment 55853

Cassette reels

Cassette reels use low-cost polycarbonate spools which are easily interchangeable so the reel can be loaded with several lines and easily interchanged. I'm a big fan of cassette reels because I experiment with a lot of lines and I don't want to have to buy a dozen reels.

View attachment 55855

The Drag
Drags can be very important to some but not at all to others. It mostly depends on the size of the fish and whether and how hard they run. For most UK trout fishing drags are not essential as even larger trout can be played by hand - either by palming the reel or simply gripping and releasing line with the non-rod hand. But others like to play a fish 'off the reel' and for that they require a decent drag.

I like a large drag knob which gives good feedback when tightened - preferably with a click, although these seem rare - and can be set to spin freely to all the way to almost a dead stop in only a single turn - and do it evenly and progressively.

There are other uses for drag. If you have it set fairly lightly it will prevent overruns when pulling line off the reel - ie the spool won't carry on spinning causing a tangle. You also tighten it down when you're carrying a set-up rod with the fly in the keeper ring.

Click and pawl reels don't have a drag, just a clicker to stop reel overruns.

Components of drag systems
The drag system has been made in many different ways but these days you normally find the drag behind the spindle. Drags are similar to car clutches where circular plates press against each other, the friction between the plates causing the braking effect. As we tighten the drag knob the friction plates press harder against each other and the spindle slows.

The friction washer itself - the thing that's being squeezed to create the brake - can be made of paper, cork, carbon, ceramic, felt, Teflon, stainless steel, aluminium etc. Here's a video of a guy dissembling various drag systems. I don't recommend his use of the scalpel but it shows you the inside of the drag mechanism.

And another showing how to make a replacement washer for the drag out of G10 composite

It matters a lot what that friction washer is made out of as it will get very hot when a fish is tearing off into the distance, and various materials are used react differently to pressure and heat. Some burn! Others expand and still others lose friction. If you find yourself having to tighten the drag after a fish has been on for a while, it's because it's losing friction.

This is an article written by a guy that has tested many drag systems.

Sealed or un-sealed drag?
Why choose one over the other? The main concern is saltwater; if you're fishing in the sea a sealed drag is by far the best idea as salt can damage open drag systems. Sub-zero temperatures can also freeze up an unsealed drag that has got wet. The downside of sealed drags is that you can't maintain them - if the friction washer disintegrates, you can't replace it.

Otherwise it doesn't much matter so long as you check the condition of your un-sealed drag from time to time.

How to set the drag
Most people seem to set a drag by pulling some line off and saying "that'll do". When they get a fish on they adjust the drag to suit the situation.

There doesn't seem to be a scientific method of finding the right setting but it's interesting to attach a 1kg bag of sugar to your line and see if you can lift it off the ground with the drag fully on. You can apply surprisingly little pressure to a fish through rod and line so your drag needs to be set perhaps less tightly than you may think.

The article above recommends setting drag at 25-30% of the breaking strength of your tippet. You'll have to experiment with a spring balance to know what this is.

For trout I set the drag so that a sharp pull on the line will just stop the reel over-running and then adjust with a fish on.

The Click
This is a very personal thing. Some people like the sound of old-fashioned click and pawl reels produced by a stiff metal clicker, some prefer a modern, less obvious click made by reels using mechanisms that have no other function than to make a noise. Some reels click when you wind in, some are silent. But everyone wants to hear a reel scream when a fish tears off into the distance. Sadly, that's the sort of thing you only get to know about once you've got the reel in your hand and a fish heading to the horizon.

Capacity
Reels are marketed by line size - eg 5/6 - indicating that they will be able to accommodate those line sizes plus some backing comfortably. You're not always told how much backing and of what type (backing has differing thicknesses depending on material and brand) so in reality you have to experiment a bit to work out how much to use.

Filling a reel with line
You need to put backing and fly line onto your reel. Usually the manufacturer will tell you how much backing a reel can take but it's not always accurate because they don't know whether you're using a floating or a sinking line (the sinker will be thinner). They also don't know the thickness of whatever backing you've got.

You want to fill the reel almost to the rim - too little and you're not getting the advantage of the arbour of the reel (fewer reel turns, lower line memory) too much and your reel jambs against the frame.

Here's a way of getting it exactly right.

Weight
There is a tendency now to make rods and reels as light as possible. You'll see reels with holes in their drums to reduce weight and spools with narrow spokes. Large arbour reels are often heavier than standard arbour because they have to be physically larger. Saltwater reels are usually the heaviest. But does it matter?
There are differing views on this, some say that a rod and reel need to be balanced. You'll often hear that a rod's balance point should be towards the end of the cork handle as it meets the blank, but it's not clear why. Here's Brian talking about it - start at 2min 50secs.


I find it unconvincing and prefer a reel to be as light as possible. We have to move the whole system - rod, reel, line and lure - through the air and the lighter the whole system is, the less effort it takes. Moreover, the weight felt when casting is changing all the time depending on how much line is outside the rod tip; the leverage effect of the rod magnifies this as does the force applied. There is no stable fulcrum point.

With modern rods now weighing almost nothing - a 9' #5 is about 3oz - a reel plus line and backing can be three times that weight and more when wet. Just buy a light reel.

Left or right-handed reel?
Most reels are set to be used with a left-hand wind as standard but all can be changed easily to right handed. The instructions on how to do this will come with the reel. Most right-handed anglers will use a left-hand wind but not all - it's a pure preference.

Maintaining a reel
Sealed drag reels need little maintenance other than a regular wash and dry, particularly if it's been used in saltwater. Other types may need a bit more but you need to follow the instructions that come with your reel. As you've seen above there are different types of drag systems and greasing or not greasing them may be critical.

Here's a guy showing how it can be done

Other bits and pieces
One of the annoyances of lines is that few of them are printed with what they are so that once it's on a reel it's hard to know what you've got. Some reels though have little peg indicators that you can set to tell you (Two I can think of off-hand are the Greys GTS 500 and the Hardy Ultralite - both cassette reels. Very useful.

Some reels have closed frames or cage around them and some are open. Closed frames are strong but can be a bit fiddly because your line can get trapped. Open reels are easier but maybe a bit less robust.

Here's a decent video discussing some of the stuff above
Hope your okay and who knew there was so. Much to the reel.. As you mention alot of people just use it to hold the line in place.. Others don't..
Enjoyable read thanks..
Gary
 
#4 ·
Well done, a very thorough explanation.

My old Intrepid Rimfly was perfectly adequate when I started fly fishing in the mid 70s. I upgraded to Ryobi MG magnesium reels in the 80s which were lightweight and a great match for the new carbon fibre rods that started to hit the market.
In the 00s I discovered the beautiful looking and smooth drags on Lamson Litespeed reels, which I still use with more modern versions such as Lamson Remix and Liquid reels.
A Hardy Bougle trout reel and various salmon reels, including a modern Hardy Perfect complete my current reel collection.

OK, the Intrepid Rimfly would still be adequate for most of my fishing, but fly reels are much much more than line holding devices.....they are things of beauty and works of art and engineering excellence in many cases. I have too many trout rods, so I reserve the right to have too many reels as well.😂
 
#5 ·
I know you enjoy a bit of constructive criticism so here goes.

First, the title is modern trout fly reels - there are quite a few references to saltwater that go beyond saying "not applicable"

At one point you say most reels are cnc machined. I think you meant to say most machined reels are cnc machined.

Where did you get the idea that die-cast reels could not be anodised?

You probably ought to mention the need to get arbor terminology clear - to distinguish wide or narrow spools from large or small diameters. You seem to have said "narrow" when you should have said small as you were referrring to diameter not width.

I'm always annoyed by those proposing determining backing quantity by test loading it on top of the fly line. It will result in an "under-loaded" reel for a lot of effort.
 
#6 ·
I know you enjoy a bit of constructive criticism so here goes.
Sure do.
First, the title is modern trout fly reels - there are quite a few references to saltwater that go beyond saying "not applicable"
Not sure what you mean here, I've fished in the sea for trout. Also some may use their freshwater gear for sea fish - I go after mackerel for instance - people should be aware of what saltwater can do.
At one point you say most reels are cnc machined. I think you meant to say most machined reels are cnc machined.
can you point out where please and I'll fix it.
Where did you get the idea that die-cast reels could not be anodised?
It was in one of the articles I read - is it incorrect?
You probably ought to mention the need to get arbor terminology clear - to distinguish wide or narrow spools from large or small diameters. You seem to have said "narrow" when you should have said small as you were referrring to diameter not width.
Ok - good point.
I'm always annoyed by those proposing determining backing quantity by test loading it on top of the fly line. It will result in an "under-loaded" reel for a lot of effort.
Do you have a better method?
 
#8 ·
On the subject of reel capacity (and it varying between different makes and models of reel), you'd be welcome to use my photo and the accompanying info linked here to illustrate the point if you think it useful? https://www.flyfishing.co.uk/threads/5-6-reel-with-7wt-line.289084/post-2992909

Perhaps adding that backing capacity may not be much of an issue on a reel designed for fishing small brooks, where the fish are unlikely to strip a full fly line, let alone any backing, from a reel when being played, but could be a serious consideration if fighting a big fish on a large river, lake or reservoir.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Understanding Modern Trout Fly Reels

It had to be done. I'm in COVID positive lockdown, so you can suffer with me.

This is work in progress - what have I missed/got wrong?

Introduction
For UK trout fishing, the reel is the least important piece of gear we have. Many people consider it simply a container for the line. Tenkara fly anglers don't even use one.

But for those who like to play a fish off the reel's drag it's a critical piece of equipment and for others a reel is a piece of exquisite engineering-as-art that will one day become an heirloom. Some people simply buy them as investments and put them on a shelf to admire.


You'll have to make up your own mind where you are on that tool-to-ornament spectrum.

History
Fishing reels have been around in some form or other for hundreds of years and were called winches or winders in pre-Victorian England. Many reels were made by artisans, individual craftsmen and gunsmiths in the 1800s from wood, brass, steel and ebonite but perhaps the archetypal fly reel form that all modern fly reels descended from was the Hardy Perfect which had a drag and a detachable spool..

View attachment 55845

You'll find a short history of reels as well as all things fly fishing in Mark Kurlansky's book "The Unreasonable Virtue of Fly Fishing" - highly recommended read - but here's a short history.
http://www.fishingmuseum.org.uk/reels_overview.html

[Anybody got any other good links or recommended books?]

Components of a fly reel
All fly reels look like centre pin reels - because they are. The centre pin is a very old design - based on a hub and axle like a wheel; the pin in the centre of the reel is also called the spindle, shaft or post.

The spool spins around the spindle and holds the line. The handle is attached to the spool.

Some kinds of spools are fully interchangeable cassettes - usually made of polycarbonate plastic. This is a clever and low-cost way of keeping many different lines without needing to buy many different reels or expensive metal spools.

The spool has an arbour. The arbour is the centre part of the spool that the line is wrapped around. Arbours can have large, medium and small diameter.

The frame holds the spool in place and guides the line onto and off it; it can be open or closed.

The drag is a brake on the spindle which slows the line coming off the reel when a fish runs, protecting the line from sudden breakages. It's controlled by loosening and tightening the drag knob on the side of the reel. Drags can be openor fully sealed. Open drags allow the user to maintain them, sealed drags stop water, salt and grit entering the mechanism.

A few reels do not have drags, these reels are click and pawl. With no drag they can be very light and are used mainly for small fish. You use your hand and fingers to brake the reel and slow the fish. The pawl makes the all-important click and stops line overruns when you pull line off the reel. (Line overruns are when the reel keeps spinning after you've stopped pulling line off - it can cause a bird's nest tangle.)

The reel seat fixes the reel onto the rod.

(The size of the reel seat is an AFFTA standard like the line standard. This means that any fly reel should fit on any fly rod.)

And that's pretty much it. But of course, this is fly fishing and we like to make things more complicated than that so there are multiple tweaks and variants around this basic design.

Here's an exploded image of a modern reel with an unsealed drag and an open frame.

View attachment 55847

Here's a click and pawl reel. The clicker can be seen in the left-hand picture as a small, silver pointer. It meshes with the cog in the right-hand picture.

View attachment 55849

Materials
The majority of modern reels are made of aluminium which is light, durable and machinable.

CNC
A few reels are still made by hand but the majority are machined out of solid blocks of aluminium, like Michelangelo finding David inside a block of marble. You may have heard of terms like "bar stock" and CNC in a reel's marketing material. "Bar stock" refers to the solid bar of aluminium that the reel is carved out of. Computer Numerical Controlled, CNC, is the program used by a CAM (Computer Aided Manufacturing) system that produces the reel's parts from the block.

[Anyone know anything about various qualities of aluminium used - "aircraft quality" etc. Also, magnesium and alloys?]

CNC and CAM methods make it possible for manufacturers to make repeatable, high tolerance parts fairly quickly. CNC reels are the majority of mid to high-end reels.

Here's how Hardy make a CNC reel

And here's how a highly skilled guy does the same thing almost by hand and eye.

Both manual and CNC methods look like terribly wasteful processes, though no doubt the waste aluminium is re-cycled.

Die-cast
A cheaper method of making aluminium reels is by using a die-cast process. Here molten aluminium is poured into moulds under pressure. These reels can feel a little less refined than machined reels because they can't have the same finish - die-cast reels can't be anodised, only powder coated or painted. This is said to make them unsuited to salt water use. They are also said to be less resilient, often being made from lower grade aluminium.

However, an example of a well-made die-cast reel, which appears to defy those perceptions is the Lamson Liquid which is also known for an excellent drag system.
https://www.waterworks-lamson.com/products/liquid

Plastic
The cheapest reels are made out of plastic and that - possibly apart from their lightness - is their only real advantage. They're ok to get started with, but most serious anglers would avoid them.

Carbon Composites
Composites, sometimes called graphite, reels were once in the majority but now have become less fashionable. Many remember the Leeda Dragonfly reels (well I do anyway) - sturdy and clever with detachable spools.
https://getflyfishing.com/parts-of-a-fly-reel/

Price
CNC reels use the most expensive materials followed by die-cast, composites and plastic. And quality is pretty much in that order too. With the exception of reels bought purely for investment, saltwater reels with sealed drags are the most expensive.

The majority of reels are now made in China and it's common to find spools from one brand will fit another as the brands tend to make only small cosmetic changes to a standard model to differentiate themselves. Most reels are very well made these days regardless of price.

Arbours (sp: arbor, US)
The arbour is the centre area of the spool, the part that the line winds around. This can be of a small or large diameter and many points in between. All arbours were originally quite small but now probably most are large. A large diameter arbour makes for a more efficient retrieve - fewer turns of the handle to retrieve the same amount of line. It is also less likely to create a memory in the line as it's packed in larger curves.

There are trade-offs though, the larger the arbour the larger the frame and spool and therefore the heavier the weight. A narrow arbour can contain more line and backing.

Here's a large arbour reel - note that the line is wrapped around the outside of the spool like a tyre sits on a wheel hub.

View attachment 55851

View attachment 55853

Arbours can also be of different widths ie the inside measurement across the reel from the handle side of the spool to the drag knob. You can see in the image above that the arbour width tends to increase in size as the arbour diameter also increases.

Cassette reels

Cassette reels use low-cost polycarbonate spools which are easily interchangeable so the reel can be easily loaded with several spools containing different lines. I'm a big fan of cassette reels because I experiment with a lot of lines and I don't want to have to buy a dozen reels.

View attachment 55855

The Drag
Drags can be very important to some but not at all to others. It mostly depends on the size of the fish and whether and how hard they run. For most UK trout fishing drags are not essential as even larger trout can be played by hand - either by palming the reel or simply gripping and releasing line with the non-rod hand. But others like to play a fish 'off the reel' and for that they require a decent drag.

I like a large drag knob which gives good feedback when tightened - preferably with a click, although these seem rare - and can be set to spin freely to all the way to almost a dead stop in only a single turn - and do it evenly and progressively.

There are other uses for drag. If you have it set fairly lightly it will prevent overruns when pulling line off the reel - ie the spool won't carry on spinning causing a tangle. You also tighten it down when you're carrying a set-up rod with the fly in the keeper ring.

Click and pawl reels don't have a drag, just a clicker to stop reel overruns.

Components of drag systems
The drag system has been made in many different ways but these days you normally find the drag behind the spindle. Drags are similar to car clutches where circular plates press against each other, the friction between the plates causing the braking effect. As we tighten the drag knob the friction plates press harder against each other and the spindle slows.

The friction washer itself - the thing that's being squeezed to create the brake - can be made of paper, cork, carbon, ceramic, felt, Teflon, stainless steel, aluminium etc. Here's a video of a guy dissembling various drag systems. I don't recommend his use of the scalpel but it shows you the inside of the drag mechanism.

And another showing how to make a replacement washer for the drag out of G10 composite

It matters a lot what that friction washer is made out of as it will get very hot when a fish is tearing off into the distance, and various materials are used react differently to pressure and heat. Some burn! Others expand and still others lose friction. If you find yourself having to tighten the drag after a fish has been on for a while, it's because it's losing friction.

This is an article written by a guy that has tested many drag systems.

Sealed or un-sealed drag?
Why choose one over the other? The main concern is saltwater; if you're fishing in the sea a sealed drag is by far the best idea as salt can damage open drag systems. Sub-zero temperatures can also freeze up an unsealed drag that has got wet. The downside of sealed drags is that you can't maintain them - if the friction washer disintegrates, you can't replace it.

Otherwise it doesn't much matter so long as you check the condition of your un-sealed drag from time to time.

How to set the drag
Most people seem to set a drag by pulling some line off and saying "that'll do". When they get a fish on they adjust the drag to suit the situation.

There doesn't seem to be a scientific method of finding the right setting but it's interesting to attach a 1kg bag of sugar to your line and see if you can lift it off the ground with the drag fully on. You can apply surprisingly little pressure to a fish through rod and line so your drag needs to be set perhaps less tightly than you may think.

The article above recommends setting drag at 25-30% of the breaking strength of your tippet. You'll have to experiment with a spring balance to know what this is.

For trout I set the drag so that a sharp pull on the line will just stop the reel over-running and then adjust with a fish on.

The Click
This is a very personal thing. Some people like the sound of old-fashioned click and pawl reels produced by a stiff metal clicker, some prefer a modern, less obvious click made by reels using mechanisms that have no other function than to make a noise. Some reels click when you wind in, some are silent. But everyone wants to hear a reel scream when a fish tears off into the distance. Sadly, that's the sort of thing you only get to know about once you've got the reel in your hand and a fish heading to the horizon.

Capacity
Reels are marketed by line size - eg 5/6, 7/9 etc - indicating that they will be able to accommodate those line sizes plus some backing comfortably. You're not always told how much backing and of what type (backing has differing thicknesses depending on material and brand) so in reality you have to experiment a bit to work out how much to use.

Here's a forum member's (Vintage Badger) picture of two reels: "#3/4 Reel on the left with WF#3 line and 30m of backing, a #2/4 reel on the right with WF#3 line and 100m of (similar thickness) backing. The reel on the left is slightly larger in width too." Note the smaller arbour reel holds more line.

View attachment 55885

Filling a reel with line
You need to put backing and fly line onto your reel. Usually the manufacturer will tell you how much backing a reel can take but it's not always accurate because they don't know whether you're using a floating or a sinking line (the sinker will be thinner). They also don't know the thickness of whatever backing you've got.

You want to fill the reel almost to the rim - too little and you're not getting the advantage of the arbour of the reel (fewer reel turns, lower line memory) too much and your reel jambs against the frame.

Here's a way of getting it exactly right.

Weight
There is a tendency now to make rods and reels as light as possible. You'll see reels with holes in their drums to reduce weight and spools with narrow spokes. Large arbour reels are often heavier than standard arbour because they have to be physically larger. Saltwater reels are usually the heaviest. But does it matter?
There are differing views on this, some say that a rod and reel need to be balanced. You'll often hear that a rod's balance point should be towards the end of the cork handle as it meets the blank, but it's not clear why. Here's Brian talking about it - start at 2min 50secs.


I find it unconvincing and prefer a reel to be as light as possible. We have to move the whole system - rod, reel, line and lure - through the air and the lighter the whole system is, the less effort it takes. Moreover, the weight felt when casting is changing all the time depending on how much line is outside the rod tip; the leverage effect of the rod magnifies this as does the force applied. There is no stable fulcrum point.

With modern rods now weighing almost nothing - a 9' #5 is about 3oz - a reel plus line and backing can be three times that weight and more when wet. Just buy a light reel.

Left or right-handed reel?
Most reels are set to be used with a left-hand wind as standard but all can be changed easily to right handed. The instructions on how to do this will come with the reel. Most right-handed anglers will use a left-hand wind but not all - it's a pure preference.

Maintaining a reel
Sealed drag reels need little maintenance other than a regular wash and dry, particularly if it's been used in saltwater. Other types may need a bit more but you need to follow the instructions that come with your reel. As you've seen above there are different types of drag systems and greasing or not greasing them may be critical.

Here's a guy showing how it can be done

Other bits and pieces
One of the annoyances of lines is that few of them are printed with what they are so that once it's on a reel it's hard to know what you've got. Some reels though have little peg indicators that you can set to tell you (Two I can think of off-hand are the Greys GTS 500 and the Hardy Ultralite - both cassette reels. Very useful.)

Some reels have closed frames or cages around them and some are open. Closed frames are strong but can be a bit fiddly because your line can get trapped. Open reels are easier but maybe a bit less robust.

Here's a decent video discussing some of the stuff above
Bit of work there! It's a massive topic, with so many permutations on design.
I have quite a few hubless reel designs, that are well sought after. Backwinders, Megoff, Gaia and Highlander, Loop Grayling, Hardy Marksman, Arctic Silver IC3.
I've always disagreed that click and pawls are not drags, just overrun mechanisms, I have some click and pawl, that put a lot of resistance on giving line, some have three pawlswould stop a steelhead without touching the rim.
Click and pawl are still by far and away the most popular with steelhead fishermen, who'll even put stronger springs in.
Modern reels are nearly always set up for LHW, but pre mid sixties they were nearly all RHW, Hardy Perfects, St George, with the agate line guards and early Pflueger Medalist USA are very rare in LHW and fetch double the money.
Quite a few sealed drag reels can be user serviced, with basic tools, if you're mechanically minded.
What about draw bar reels? A topic on its own, they are still by far and away the most popular for blue water species, Abel, Fly Logic and Islander, Penn, Orvis Oddysey and Virtex etc not sealed drags, sealed bearings, but most guides still favour these for reliability in the salt, way above anything else.
This Fly Logic has beaten big Tarpon, Tuna and Permit #12 plus size, it'll take a 40 yard #12 line and 600 yards of 80 pound braid. Classic draw bar reel.
469FD959-3448-44C7-9803-772468F533A6.jpeg


Pflueger Medallists (Akron) were one of the first to have proper drags , along with the Hardy Silent checks, and were a timeless design and still widely used today and will stop the biggest Salmon or Steelhead.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Bit of work there! It's a massive topic, with so many permutations on design.
I have quite a few hubless reel designs, that are well sought after. Backwinders, Megoff, Gaia and Highlander, Loop Grayling, Hardy Marksman, Arctic Silver IC3.
I've always disagreed that click and pawls are not drags, just overrun mechanisms, I have some click and pawl, that put a lot of resistance on giving line, some have three pawlswould stop a steelhead without touching the rim.
Click and pawl are still by far and away the most popular with steelhead fishermen, who'll even put stronger springs in.
Modern reels are nearly always set up for LHW, but pre mid sixties they were nearly all RHW, Hardy Perfects, St George, with the agate line guards and early Pflueger Medalist USA are very rare in LHW and fetch double the money.
Quite a few sealed drag reels can be user serviced, with basic tools, if you're mechanically minded.
What about draw bar reels? A topic on its own, they are still by far and away the most popular for blue water species, Abel, Fly Logic and Islander, Penn, Orvis Oddysey and Virtex etc not sealed drags, sealed bearings, but most guides still favour these for reliability in the salt, way above anything else.
This Fly Logic has beaten big Tarpon, Tuna and Permit #12 plus size, it'll take a 40 yard #12 line and 600 yards of 80 pound braid. Classic draw bar reel.
View attachment 55903

Pflueger Medallists (Akron) were one of the first to have proper drags , along with the Hardy Silent checks, and were a timeless design and still widely used today and will stop the biggest Salmon or Steelhead.
Thanks for all that. I'm pleased I restricted myself to 'UK', 'trout' and 'modern'!

I've already qualified C&P having no drag - what is the advantage of a C&P with a drag component over a conventional drag?

Never heard of draw bar reels, I'll have a look. But I suspect that they're out-of-scope for this missive.

Edit: I see that 'draw bar' drags are just the modern types of clutch style washer drags that I've described.
 
#13 ·
Could you contribute something, I know nothing about them.
(Not that that would stop me of course :cool: )
Got to do semi automatics...the simplest description is maybe...handle generally forward of the reel operates as a lever that turns a gear that turns the spool as opposed to winding the actual spool, Vivarelli is a well known make.

Automatics are a different beast, no longer made and used springs to ratchet up and release.
 
#14 ·
The basic design of fly reel hasn't changed much in more than 350 years. The true grandfather of fly fishing, Col. Robert Venables, was using one in the aftermath of the Civil War. He wrote about them in his book, The Experienced Angler.

He could walk onto any trout fishery or fly shop, pick up a reel and know exactly what it was for. He would marvel at its lightness and the materials it is made of, but the basic design would be very much as he knew it.

He may not have been the nicest person, but back then soldiers didn't have room in their lives for being nice, but he was an angler, and moreover one with a keen eye and and enquiring mind. He wrote about things that disappeared from fishing only to reappear 250 years later when someone re-invented the wheel.

He is the giant upon whose shoulders we stand.

"Let your own observation be your constant and daily instructor, for if they will not take the fly upon the surface, then try them under, there being no certain rule in this in my opinion." Col. Robert Venables, The Experienced Angler. 1662
 
#23 ·
The basic design of fly reel hasn't changed much in more than 350 years. The true grandfather of fly fishing, Col. Robert Venables, was using one in the aftermath of the Civil War. He wrote about them in his book, The Experienced Angler.

He could walk onto any trout fishery or fly shop, pick up a reel and know exactly what it was for. He would marvel at its lightness and the materials it is made of, but the basic design would be very much as he knew it.
He may well marvel at the lightness of modern fly reels, but I think he'd most likely soil his armour when he saw the price of the bloody things these days!
 
#15 ·
Sure do.

1 Not sure what you mean here, I've fished in the sea for trout. Also some may use their freshwater gear for sea fish - I go after mackerel for instance - people should be aware of what saltwater can do.

2 can you point out where please and I'll fix it.

3 It was in one of the articles I read - is it incorrect?

4 Ok - good point.

5 Do you have a better method?
1 I see that people have already ignored your specified scope and started talking about tuna rather than trout. Interesting that I suspect few will mention salmon reels.

2 A few reels are still made by hand but the majority are machined out of solid blocks of aluminium, like Michelangelo finding David inside a block of marble.

3 Back in the '70's I worked for a company that cast both aluminium and zinc (mazak) and we certainly had anodising tanks and anodised cast aluminium. I dont know the chemistry of why, but do recall it was vital to keep ally away from zinc. The company was renowned in the trade for the quality of its casting.

4 This is probably the most important point - the need to clearly distinguish diameter from width.

5 Take the makers recommendation and remove some if necessary. The problem with the well publicised farting around method is it wastes time and significantly understates the backing the reel can accomodate. (backing needs to be tightly packed and you can't tightly pack backing on top of a flyline). This is of course irrelevant for trout reels.
 
#20 ·
Here's an Islander of mine, showing the drawbar, these are the most reliable type for saltwater - nothing else comes close, Abel BG, Flylogic (now defunct,) Orvis Vortex, Penn, Bauer and a few others do the same design.
You can see the much larger drag surface area in the Islander, compared to the Jamiesons hermetically sealed drag reel, Sage 3000 D types are similar. Sealed drags heat up and fail with a fast running open water fish.
The only
Issue with draw bar reels is the very high prices.

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#34 ·
Here's an Islander of mine, showing the drawbar, these are the most reliable type for saltwater - nothing else comes close, Abel BG, Flylogic (now defunct,) Orvis Vortex, Penn, Bauer and a few others do the same design.
You can see the much larger drag surface area in the Islander, compared to the Jamiesons hermetically sealed drag reel, Sage 3000 D types are similar. Sealed drags heat up and fail with a fast running open water fish.
The only
Issue with draw bar reels is the very high prices.

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I'll definately add a section for drawbar reels and nick your pictures.
I don't understand why they're so expensive though - it's quite a primitive looking mechanism.

Do all drawbar reels use cork friction pads? Are they greased?

This is counterintuitive but it appears to be a fact.

The surface area of the drag washers has no relevance to the amount of drag your reel can produce. The classic laws of friction state that the amount of friction is independent of the area of contact for a wide range of areas.

And this on heat generated by friction

Two things happen when your drag starts to run and heat is generated. First, frictional (drag washer) surfaces will lose friction (lower the coefficient of friction) as they get hotter. And to offset that effect, heat causes all drag washer materials to "swell" (coefficient of thermal expansion). That swelling in the components of your drag system means that you get the same effect as tightening the drag knob and compressing the drag adjustment spring; that is, drag pressure increases. If you could balance the two exactly, you would lose friction with heat, but the heat would increase the pressure so you would get a compensating increase in friction. Unfortunately this balance is very difficult to achieve in the real world, so what would actually happen in the worst case scenario is what is called a "thermal runaway". Eventually the drag system will fry itself and fail. It's not a pretty or sweet smelling event. We have seen it happen very quickly in the DragensteinTM tests.
So how much heat am I talking about here? I have seen what appeared to be normal drag system function generate heat in excess of 500 degrees Fahrenheit. That is enough to melt most plastic components if that is what some of the components are comprised. In one case during the DragensteinTM tests, the meltdown was only small in a component that came into contact with the drag washers, but it was enough to cause failure in the drag system.

HEAT SINK
Take heart there is a solution, though I have only seen it "incidentally" applied. If the heat can be dissipated sufficiently, the drag will continue to perform in a steady manner. I have only seen a very few reels do that. When analyzed, they all did it for just one reason. The drag system design had utilized an effective "heat sink", that is, provided a place for the heat to be drawn away from the surfaces of the drag washers. This single factor can do more to help a reel drag perform well than any other.
Most metal drag washers are made from either stainless steel or aluminum. Presumably these metals are used to prevent rust and corrosion. However, they are far from equal. Aluminum has one of the highest coefficients of thermal expansion of all metals and also will absorb heat the fastest (thermal conductivity). In the confines of a drag system, and sandwiched between other drag washers, its expansion will very quickly tighten a drag system and increase drag pressures; sometimes within moments. Stainless steel and perhaps titanium, which is much more expensive, are better choices for drag washers, but they also will expand and increase drag pressures.

In most spinning reels the best heat sink for drag washers is the body of the aluminum spool. If it is heavy enough; that is, has enough aluminum, it can quickly absorb the drag system heat if the drag washers contact the spool body. Plastic spools are a very poor choice for spinning reel spools.
This points out that trying to make spinning reels especially light in weight may not be the best design.
 
#37 · (Edited)
Because they are so well made, last a lifetime or three, take a lot of time to make and have a fantastic after sales service, for all models past and present, unlike the showers of sh#t companies in Blighty and the Far Eastern mass produced questionable quality items.
If you used one, you would understand. They are no different to Abel, Megoff, Bogdan, Hardy-Alnwick built, Wurm or Saracione in terms of cost, longevity and pleasure to use and they hold their value.
$750 is extremely cheap for anything as well engineered that will last a lifetime. A Bogdan or Saracione would cost several times more.
A tonne of feed wheat will cost you £350 today or $440 just to put value into perspective.
This is what you pay for- see Boca reel test, the fly reels will do the same if you lock off the ratchet. Every single component item of an Islander is made in house from scratch, even the bearings.
 
#42 ·
Fished and owned 7 bomb proved Hardy made in England reels over the years and never felt the need for stronger drag in trout fishing. My last reel additions are a couple of made in Germany simple Vosseler air one clickers #5/6 and #3/4, didn't needed disc drag even for some 50-60-70cm river browns.
 
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#43 · (Edited)
fyi

6. Type of Drag System
This is unfortunately a topic that could require pages of information to describe what was discovered in the DragensteinTM Project. I will attempt to generalize and narrow it down to a few salient points.

A. Is the system a dry washer system or is grease incorporated? If the system is a stack of grease-impregnated felt washers running against metal, consider that the performance is going to change as the reel and drag system change temperature, grease is extruded, and as the felt washers age. In fact, these popular systems will never run the same way twice until the felt is totally disintegrated. Drag performance will change depending on the temperature. If they are on the deck of a boat in tropical sun or in a snow storm in Alaska, they will never perform the same way twice. These are not going to be good reels for fast running, open-water fish. They may work for trout or bream fishing where the drag will receive little use.

B. The same advice applies generally for grease-impregnated cork or cork composite. As the grease is extruded and the cork flattens and wears out, the drag system will continue to change. They are only slightly more stable than grease-impregnated felt and subject to the same problems as felt. These types of washers will permanently compress if the drag is not fully loosened when the reel is stored and in general loose their performance over time.

C. If the heart of the reel drag system is dry carbon or a dry carbon fiber, it will probably follow the trend we saw in testing. It will start running with plenty of drag, perhaps with minimal start-up forces (typical initial spike in drag forces as the line begins running), but will immediately go into a period of fade where drag forces taper off. That is then typically followed by a period of drag pressure increase as the spool empties line (spool spinning speed is increasing). That increase can be many times the original drag pressure setting.
Obviously this can be a big problem if the angler is not anticipating it. It is necessary to adjust the drag repeatedly as the fish is played and with continued removal of line.

D. Teflon (PTFE) drag washers are frequently found in spinning reel drag and can be very problematic. Teflon is known for being very slippery stuff and may give the impression that it will make a good adjustable friction surface. That only sounds good in theory. Teflon is very soft, permanently compresses very easily as it gets hot, and is too slick to make a usable drag. Even when it is impregnated with glass or some other substance (and it also goes by a lot of different names so you have to be careful to check it out), it still compresses and will loose its adjustability. The exception to what I am telling you here is my next discussion.

E. The best performing drags tested on DragensteinTM were
consistently drag systems with drag washers made of Rulon. Rulon comes in a number of different types, each with their own friction characteristics, and if properly designed in the reel will provide a fisherman with his best choice for an open-water drag system. RulonR is basically a teflon based material, but it has been altered in composition (proprietary composition) so that many of the undesirable traits of teflon are avoided. This material will reproduce consistent results during testing if everything is done correctly. (I currently hold a patent for a drag system for a spinning reel, US Patent 7,789,335, made with Rulon LR and Rulon J.)

So just what is the correct way to design a reel drag to get consistent performance? There may be no simple answer to that question, but perhaps it would help to have a little better understanding of that science of Tribology that I mentioned earlier as it applies to the type of friction device found in fishing reels.
 
#51 ·
If you went to a blue water fly fishing comp, 60-70% of entrants would be touting Islander reels, the rest Abel with a few Seigler and a spattering of other brands, Hatch Steelfin, Fin-nor, Shilton. Folks buy reels for this branch of the sport based upon reputation, not advertising blurb. Cork is probably still the best choice and by far and away the most reliable drag system, based on real World situations, not Desk top tests. I know you say it's BS, but sealed drags are crap, the O rings cause friction and are difficult to keep lubricated, as they are under pressure. If sealed drags were any good, you'd see more on the flats, they maybe work ok in a U.K. trout scenario, but you don't need them for most U.K. situations other than Saltwater.
 
#61 ·
Everything ed_t says makes sense to me. It's 40 years since I was involved in the casting/injection moulding business. Tooling (ie molds) was expensive and new tooling had to be well justified. The business I was with was only just getting cnc machines and the programming and sophistication of cnc machines must have advanced incredibly in that 40 years. It is entirely reasonable to me that these days machined reel components are cheaper to produce than molded ones for the volumes that reels are produced in.

What might be a bit of emperors clothing is the need for aircraft grade material. A fly reel is unlikely to cause an accident with fatalities requiring the level of investigation into material fatigue an air crash requires.
 
#62 ·
Everything ed_t says makes sense to me. It's 40 years since I was involved in the casting/injection moulding business. Tooling (ie molds) was expensive and new tooling had to be well justified. The business I was with was only just getting cnc machines and the programming and sophistication of cnc machines must have advanced incredibly in that 40 years. It is entirely reasonable to me that these days machined reel components are cheaper to produce than molded ones for the volumes that reels are produced in.

What might be a bit of emperors clothing is the need for aircraft grade material. A fly reel is unlikely to cause an accident with fatalities requiring the level of investigation into material fatigue an air crash requires.
At our LHR facility there was a machine shop on the industrial estate that made bits for aircraft. They had a good quality control system which included a segregated and secure cage for storage of aircraft grade and certified materials.

No difference to the other materials other than the level of inspection, cost and paper certification traceability... and the knowledge that there are insignificant defects within the materials.
 
#68 ·
I didn’t say anything . I’m not fooling myself , life is about choice . If you’re happy that’s all that matters . I don’t brag about tackle . Given a choice I will absolutely avoid buying anything made in China .( I know that a very hard call given our dependence on mobile communications etc ) Sure any old trout reel may last for eons , but my personal opinion is that I would rather pay more for products that have been made in the free world , by people who get a good standard of living .

I was simply agreeing with Hardrar’s comments about the quality of a reel produced to engineering standards by Vancouver Island manufacturer. I don’t own one , but I’ve fished with their mooching reels ,and I’ve had a good look at them in Island Outfitters in Victoria .
 
#76 ·
@Tangled I concur you don't need expensive reel to catch fish and anyone who argues the contrary is deluded. BUT this is missing the point: for some of us the quality of the equipment is part of an aesthetic of fly fishing which by and large is what we draw our pleasure from. Quoting Lasse from the sister US forum: "
If all you care about is catching fish, learn to stand still and chech nymph.

Picking that one trout on a broad river on a dryfly at 100 feet just because you can, priceless! "

in that same vein I enjoy much more catching that sipping trout with a bamboo rod a silk line and a bogdan reel (don't have one though, not am I able to throw 100ft, I wish I could though!!!) BUT I'd still enjoy it a lot with any cheapo Equipment and some of my best friends couldn't care less about equipment and catch much more than I do.

It's a leisure so each to it's own, it s all respectable!
 
#78 · (Edited)
I concur you don't need expensive reel to catch fish and anyone who argues the contrary is deluded. BUT this is missing the point: for some of us the quality of the equipment is part of an aesthetic of fly fishing which by and large is what we draw our pleasure from.
I understand the aesthetic argument. I have no quibble with it.
My argument is with those that rubbish perfectly good equipment just because it's inexpensive.
Quoting Lasse from the sister US forum: "
If all you care about is catching fish, learn to stand still and chech nymph.

Picking that one trout on a broad river on a dryfly at 100 feet just because you can, priceless! "
There are very, very few anglers that can cast a dry fly to 100' not to mention accurately.
But achieving it has nothing to do with the price of the reel - or the rod for that matter.

It's a leisure so each to it's own, it s all respectable!
Doesn't stop us discussing the whys and wherefores though ;-)
 
#84 · (Edited)
I've never spent much money on fly reels, preferring 'bang for buck' rather than bling and names. I'd rather spend money on the rod than the reel, and put the money saved towards fishing. That's my personal choice, and I can work that way as I don't fish for marlin or something that's going to strip 150m of line off the reel in 10 seconds, so a cheaper but functional drag system will do me just fine. I don't fish saltwater either, so I've no need to spend money on corrosion resistant metals, etc.

As for not buying from the far east, try and avoid it, either directly or indirectly! I recently bought a 'top-spec' Panasonic microwave and it had Made in China on the box when it arrived. So what's the point of me avoiding buying direct from China if big name international companies don't? And they'll be spending a lot more money there than I will!

I've just bought a 6' 6" Greys GR80 Streamflex rod, and that was made in South Korea; I bought a Scierra Traxion 1LW 2four click pawl CNC alloy reel to balance my new rod and that has 'made in China' on the box. Should I have sent these back and spent £1500+ instead of £300 on a rod and reel just to get something that wasn't made in the far east? Having said that, where does the carbon fibre come from? Or, for that matter, the bamboo if I spent £2,000+ on a new British-built split cane rod?

I don't criticise anyone for spending a lot of money on a reel or rod, but I don't expect them to tell me I'm in the wrong for going down a more economical route. It shouldn't come as a shock to learn that not everyone can afford the likes of an Abel reel, but it may come as a shock to some to learn that not everyone actually wants one!