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Everything ed_t says makes sense to me. It's 40 years since I was involved in the casting/injection moulding business. Tooling (ie molds) was expensive and new tooling had to be well justified. The business I was with was only just getting cnc machines and the programming and sophistication of cnc machines must have advanced incredibly in that 40 years. It is entirely reasonable to me that these days machined reel components are cheaper to produce than molded ones for the volumes that reels are produced in.

What might be a bit of emperors clothing is the need for aircraft grade material. A fly reel is unlikely to cause an accident with fatalities requiring the level of investigation into material fatigue an air crash requires.
 
Everything ed_t says makes sense to me. It's 40 years since I was involved in the casting/injection moulding business. Tooling (ie molds) was expensive and new tooling had to be well justified. The business I was with was only just getting cnc machines and the programming and sophistication of cnc machines must have advanced incredibly in that 40 years. It is entirely reasonable to me that these days machined reel components are cheaper to produce than molded ones for the volumes that reels are produced in.

What might be a bit of emperors clothing is the need for aircraft grade material. A fly reel is unlikely to cause an accident with fatalities requiring the level of investigation into material fatigue an air crash requires.
At our LHR facility there was a machine shop on the industrial estate that made bits for aircraft. They had a good quality control system which included a segregated and secure cage for storage of aircraft grade and certified materials.

No difference to the other materials other than the level of inspection, cost and paper certification traceability... and the knowledge that there are insignificant defects within the materials.
 
What might be a bit of emperors clothing is the need for aircraft grade material. A fly reel is unlikely to cause an accident with fatalities requiring the level of investigation into material fatigue an air crash requires.
Oh, I'm not too sure of that; if a fly reel was used as a murder weapon to beat someone to death with, then I'm sure the forensic department would be keen to investigate the structural properties of the materials involved in its construction?

Joking aside, 6061-T6 'aircraft grade' aluminium alloy is the stuff many CNC fly fishing reels are made from, details of which can be read here (enjoy the rabbit hole): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6061_aluminum_alloy
 
Because they are so well made, last a lifetime or three, take a lot of time to make and have a fantastic after sales service, for all models past and present, unlike the showers of sh#t companies in Blighty and the Far Eastern mass produced questionable quality items
Yes , you either get it or you don't … I get it .

Still , The Wankituki Dangerous Toy and Firework company will continue to make sloppy cheap products for those that don't, so everyone is happy,
 
Yes , you either get it or you don't … I get it .

Still , The Wankituki Dangerous Toy and Firework company will continue to make sloppy cheap products for those that don't, so everyone is happy,
It's incredible, but you can actually telephone Islander or Abel for that matter and get hold of a real person, who actually goes fly fishing and they will give you advice with any issues you may have.
Shock horror- they even speak English.
 
Discussion starter · #66 ·
Yes , you either get it or you don't … I get it .

Still , The Wankituki Dangerous Toy and Firework company will continue to make sloppy cheap products for those that don't, so everyone is happy,
I get that it's it's nice to have nicely made, expensive things. It's not something that interests me but I understand it.

But I don't understand why it's also necessary to tell lies about products that aren't expensive but can do exactly the same job. It's like people have to rubbish the cheaper product in order to justify their purchase of the more expensive one.

None of the reels (or rods) I've bought to use are sloppy - they've all be excellent products that will probably outlive me. They're never the cheapest but I've been finding that even the very cheapest Chinese made fly gear is actually very, very good.

You'll never be able to brag about them or feel that pride ownership thing, but as fishing tools for UK trout they work as well as anything at any price. It's just a simple fact that a ÂŁ20 Maxcatch ECO reel works just as well for the job we put it to as a ÂŁ3,000 Bogdan (or whatever) would. When we're spending that kind of money - or even a fraction of it - we're doing it for something other than simply going fishing. That's fine but don't fool yourself that you're doing it because cheaper products don't work or don't last.
 
I get that it's it's nice to have nicely made, expensive things. It's not something that interests me but I understand it.

But I don't understand why it's also necessary to tell lies about products that aren't expensive but can do exactly the same job. It's like people have to rubbish the cheaper product in order to justify their purchase of the more expensive one.

None of the reels (or rods) I've bought to use are sloppy - they've all be excellent products that will probably outlive me. They're never the cheapest but I've been finding that even the very cheapest Chinese made fly gear is actually very, very good.

You'll never be able to brag about them or feel that pride ownership thing, but as fishing tools for UK trout they work as well as anything at any price. It's just a simple fact that a ÂŁ20 Maxcatch ECO reel works just as well for the job we put it to as a ÂŁ3,000 Bogdan (or whatever) would. When we're spending that kind of money - or even a fraction of it - we're doing it for something other than simply going fishing. That's fine but don't fool yourself that you're doing it because cheaper products don't work or don't last.
That is not true, the Far Eastern stuff, soon loses its finish and corrodes, bearings fail, threads wear and drags go bumpy and jam, spools crack and twist and there's no after sales service, which I know you won't be bothered about, as they are so cheap as to be disposable- you'll just buy more, which isn't at all good for the environment, add in the negative fact, you're effectively buying off and supporting a Pariah state, that has a terrible human rights policy.
To state cheap nasty Far Eastern garbage is as good or as long lasting as quality Western made Fly reels is a fat lie and you well know it.
It will last just as long sat in a drawer maybe, but give it some hard use and they soon will fail very quickly- try this with you Max Crap reels and see what happens .
 
I didn’t say anything . I’m not fooling myself , life is about choice . If you’re happy that’s all that matters . I don’t brag about tackle . Given a choice I will absolutely avoid buying anything made in China .( I know that a very hard call given our dependence on mobile communications etc ) Sure any old trout reel may last for eons , but my personal opinion is that I would rather pay more for products that have been made in the free world , by people who get a good standard of living .

I was simply agreeing with Hardrar’s comments about the quality of a reel produced to engineering standards by Vancouver Island manufacturer. I don’t own one , but I’ve fished with their mooching reels ,and I’ve had a good look at them in Island Outfitters in Victoria .
 
Discussion starter · #69 ·
That is not true, the Far Eastern stuff, soon loses its finish and corrodes, bearings fail, threads wear and drags go bumpy and jam, spools crack and twist and there's no after sales service, which I know you won't be bothered about, as they are so cheap as to be disposable- you'll just buy more, which isn't at all good for the environment, add in the negative fact, you're effectively buying off and supporting a Pariah state, that has a terrible human rights policy.
That certainly not my experience. On the rare occasion I have a problem I just call the retailer, speak to a real person and get it sorted. I've spoken personally to Gary Evans and one of the Norris' - they quite often pick up the phone.

I agree that there's not much point calling Maxcatch, but they respond to emails and actually provide a pretty high standard of customer service for a company that's right at the bottom of the pile as far as price goes.
To state cheap nasty Far Eastern garbage is as good or as long lasting as quality Western made Fly reels is a fat lie and you well know it.
It will last just as long sat in a drawer maybe, but give it some hard use and they soon will fail very quickly- try this with you Max Crap reels and see what happens .
That's just blind prejudice I'm afraid.
 
I get that it's it's nice to have nicely made, expensive things. It's not something that interests me but I understand it.

But I don't understand why it's also necessary to tell lies about products that aren't expensive but can do exactly the same job. It's like people have to rubbish the cheaper product in order to justify their purchase of the more expensive one.

None of the reels (or rods) I've bought to use are sloppy - they've all be excellent products that will probably outlive me. They're never the cheapest but I've been finding that even the very cheapest Chinese made fly gear is actually very, very good.

You'll never be able to brag about them or feel that pride ownership thing, but as fishing tools for UK trout they work as well as anything at any price. It's just a simple fact that a ÂŁ20 Maxcatch ECO reel works just as well for the job we put it to as a ÂŁ3,000 Bogdan (or whatever) would. When we're spending that kind of money - or even a fraction of it - we're doing it for something other than simply going fishing. That's fine but don't fool yourself that you're doing it because cheaper products don't work or don't last.
It might be 90% of the quality of a Western made item, but the cost is so low because of several factors:
1. the raw materials have been obtained by duping some thrid world country into trading their resources for some infrastructure developments, or financial loans that lock them in for years.

2. The design has been copied from someone else that paid for the R&D.

3. the labour used is forced labour, or sweat shop labour. Prisoners forced to work in factories, sleeping under the machine benches or in a dormitory next door.

Personally, while the cheap, Chinese product might appeal financially, it doesn't sit well to support the enemy who is waging an economic war against the rest of the world. Stealing our designs, then selling them at below cost to undermine Western manufacturing in a long term strategy of domination.
 
Discussion starter · #73 ·
1. the raw materials have been obtained by duping some thrid world country into trading their resources for some infrastructure developments, or financial loans that lock them in for years.

2. The design has been copied from someone else that paid for the R&D.

3. the labour used is forced labour, or sweat shop labour. Prisoners forced to work in factories, sleeping under the machine benches or in a dormitory next door.

Personally, while the cheap, Chinese product might appeal financially, it doesn't sit well to support the enemy who is waging an economic war against the rest of the world. Stealing our designs, then selling them at below cost to undermine Western manufacturing in a long term strategy of domination.
The ethical arguments have been done to death in several other threads. They're perfectly valid but if you're going to make them with any semblance of authenticity, you're going to have to do it by post because the thing you're typing into is full of Chinese components. If you got rid of everything in your house that isn't made in China you'd be lacking an awful lot of stuff that you currently believe you really need. It's the world we live in.

But I'm making the argument on purely functional terms. For UK trout fishing, there's absolutely no need to spend much on a fly reel.
 
The ethical arguments have been done to death in several other threads. They're perfectly valid but if you're going to make them with any semblance of authenticity, you're going to have to do it by post because the thing you're typing into is full of Chinese components. If you got rid of everything in your house that isn't made in China you'd be lacking an awful lot of stuff that you currently believe you really need. It's the world we live in.

But I'm making the argument on purely functional terms. For UK trout fishing, there's absolutely no need to spend much on a fly reel.
My old Leeda Rimfly will do me quite well then. Made in England, about 1978 I think.
 
@Tangled I concur you don't need expensive reel to catch fish and anyone who argues the contrary is deluded. BUT this is missing the point: for some of us the quality of the equipment is part of an aesthetic of fly fishing which by and large is what we draw our pleasure from. Quoting Lasse from the sister US forum: "
If all you care about is catching fish, learn to stand still and chech nymph.

Picking that one trout on a broad river on a dryfly at 100 feet just because you can, priceless! "

in that same vein I enjoy much more catching that sipping trout with a bamboo rod a silk line and a bogdan reel (don't have one though, not am I able to throw 100ft, I wish I could though!!!) BUT I'd still enjoy it a lot with any cheapo Equipment and some of my best friends couldn't care less about equipment and catch much more than I do.

It's a leisure so each to it's own, it s all respectable!
 
Nothing prejudiced about it. I wish folks would gain a bit of patriotism and put their brain into gear before buying from Far Eastern Pariah states.
I bought a few reels made by them about 20/25 years ago and they're still as good as gold, they're the Pflueger Trion (big and smaller), they've never let me down and theyre still as smooth as the day I bought them.

I bought them cheap as they were being discontinued by YGA, I believe you had one for sale a while ago
 
Discussion starter · #78 · (Edited)
I concur you don't need expensive reel to catch fish and anyone who argues the contrary is deluded. BUT this is missing the point: for some of us the quality of the equipment is part of an aesthetic of fly fishing which by and large is what we draw our pleasure from.
I understand the aesthetic argument. I have no quibble with it.
My argument is with those that rubbish perfectly good equipment just because it's inexpensive.
Quoting Lasse from the sister US forum: "
If all you care about is catching fish, learn to stand still and chech nymph.

Picking that one trout on a broad river on a dryfly at 100 feet just because you can, priceless! "
There are very, very few anglers that can cast a dry fly to 100' not to mention accurately.
But achieving it has nothing to do with the price of the reel - or the rod for that matter.

It's a leisure so each to it's own, it s all respectable!
Doesn't stop us discussing the whys and wherefores though ;-)
 
Discussion starter · #80 ·
Only in 'Merica would you find someone stood at the side of a road tying a fishing line to the rear end of a motorcycle to test his fly reel drag!
Why didn't they go to an out of the way road or runway?
I think it's to demonstrate the importance of the drag on a $1,000 reel when fighting a 1/2lb UK brownie.
 
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